Comparing idle income

What’s up with Egypt? I know their president is in deep caca right now, but is that any excuse to get rid of the Egypt content that’s only been out a week? That’s pretty quick, even for ngmoco:).

It’s not like any of the content was politically sensitive. No references to Moslems or Coptic Christians. It seems pretty tame to me.

Nor were they clear about which content they’re removing today. Is it just the Cleopatra’s palace and Pharaoh’s temple or is it all of the new content? Even though I’m not doing anything with it now, I bought lots of palm trees, oases and sand. Then I decided to keep the oases for now because they do make money.

I had planned to convert my east kingdom to something Mediterranean but I wanted the weather to warm up a little. So I bought stuff just for storage until then. Which is probably what they’re counting on.

These are the new oases. They deliver a high number of coins and xp per hour. Or do they? We’ll consider that below.

Click image to see full size

In the past I’ve said they need sand tiles. Cool that we got them. Maybe in the fall we’ll get fallen leaf tiles and autumn colored trees like the maples in We City.

New levels to come?

I am so pleased that ngmoco:) has added 20 additional levels with buildings to We Rule since I started playing. The black dragon at L50 will allow them to add more high level buildings in the void between L40 and L50.

In the meantime, I find myself thinking ahead to L60. We have a purple, red and black dragon. Now we need a fire breathing dragon. It can’t be that hard. The comic characters in We City control their flights with bursts of fire.

What would be really cool would be a building that bursts into flames when the fire breathing dragon flies over.

We’ve discussed churches or cathedrals in the past, and I also think a gothic cathedral would be a great addition to the game, as tall if not taller then the three castles. It could have a vat of boiling lead on top that tips over and spills every once in a while. Quasimodo could be the character.

And while we’re at it, why does We City get Stonehenge when We Rule doesn’t? I think we should get Stonehenge and maybe even Avebury and The Ring of Brodgar, complete with a sacrificial altar, druids and forest gods. Hell, let’s bring in Asgard and the ring cycle and add Gladsheim, Vingólf and the Well of Urd. Toss in some Valkyries and we’re good to go.

In fact, as long as we’re doing Egypt, let’s add Lake Victoria and the Nile. Let’s do the Mayan and Aztec monuments as well. Then we can change the game’s name to We World Geography. We could then add Angkor Wat and Angkor Tom. And the Parthenon and Coliseum, not to mention a Labyrinth with a minotaur. How about grape groves with a dancing Dionysus?

Please, however, please please, no aliens or space ships. Or cartoon superheroes. We could use a sea monster for the lakes, as that would be far more appropriate to We Rule than We City, but no aliens, space ships or superheroes.

There are still so many real medieval items left that ngmoco:) really doesn’t need to stray off theme. In addition to the cathedral, how about:

  • A round table with a knight?
  • A goblin’s cave?
  • Now that I think of it, Asgard items are a lot closer to a medieval motif than some of the other stuff (especially since we have Vikings). Let’s have those. (So are the henges. We really could add two or three of those.)
  • A gallows?
  • A wood-block press shop to print broadsheets?
  • A monastery with monks?
  • A convent with nuns?
  • The tower of the Holy Grail?
  • An ogre’s lair? Disney can sue you for using Shrek but not generic ogres.
  • A brothel?
  • Shrines with relics?
  • A dungeon?
  • A torture chamber?
  • A haunted forest?
  • Sherwood forest tree with Robin Hood?
  • Pixie Hollows with real fairies this time?

Oh, yes, and finally: Wouldn’t it be great if ngmoco:) added inventory capabilities to all of their games? And more islands to Adventure Bay?

Idle income

The oases are the newest addition to the idle income producing products, joining the groves, founts and troll bridges. The founts and bridges are buildings technically, but they really don’t return enough to customers to make them worth ordering.

(I’m stressing the last bit because people still keep ordering my trolls when I have black dragons, Olympus mounts, chimeras and chateaus in other realms. This puzzles me. Players are free to order anything in my kingdom, and I am loath to be like the salesmen who steer customers to higher end products, but in this case the higher end products are worth more. Not only that, they cost players nothing—unlike Trade Nations where players have to pay for their purchases.)

So I thought I’d crunch the numbers to see which of the idle-income properties are most valuable. I’m including space taken into account because if a property returns four times as much income but takes up five times as much space, you might want to go with the smaller items.

Compare the grove and oases areas. Both are stacked, but a lot more groves can be stacked into the same area.

Click image to see full size
Item Cost Lvl Hrs c c/Hr Xp Xp/Hr Space
Orange 3000 15 6 5 0.8 50 8.3 1
Ruby 10000 23 6 100 16.7 85 14.2 1
Diamond 100000 27 6 150 25.0 105 17.5 1
Oasis* 100000 0 12 320 26.7 515 42.9 4
Sleigh† 7000 4 1 0.3 100 25.0
Fount 90000 18 6 125 20.8 240 40.0 1
Troll Bridge 70000 14 8 15 1.8 175 21.8 .5

It’s hard to say which of the income generating properties make the most sense. On an hourly basis the oasis outperforms the ruby grove three to one in experience and slightly more than 50 percent better in coins. It outperforms the diamond by 2.5 times in xp and only has a slight advantage in coins. The oasis ouperforms thefount by 25 percent in coins and only a fraction in experience.

Here’s where other considerations come into play.

You can fit approximatley four founts or groves into the space of one oasis The numbers will even out the more you plant.. When I try to stack them, I can fit even more groves into the same space and slighly fewer founts. The founts are slightly cheaper and the ruby groves cost ten percent as much (10000 v 100000c).

For high level players, with coins to burn, I would say it’s pretty much a wash. Make use of them all. But if you’re building your kingdom and pushing to reach L30 (and even 40), go with the rubies. The combined cost reduction and return for space make them a far better bargain. Drop an oasis in if you want the decoration (the first one’s free for finishing the quest), You will actually get a higher return in approximately the same space for about 40 percent of the cost.

This assumes, of course, that ngmoco:) doesn’t discontinue the Egypt quest as well.

Big announcement tomorrow

Actually, I have a couple of announcements tomorrow, including a project I’m doing with the help of Acehound. I’m calling it the February project (that’s the code name) for reasons you’ll see then.

*First oasis free with quest.

Contact me at Email iPad Envy, or
Email The Hidden Grimoire.

23 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Ravenpuff
    Feb 01, 2011 @ 04:11:59

    I’m going to bet with Chinese New Year starting Feb 3rd, there will be Chinese buildings: silk merchant with camel, fireworks shop, pagoda, tea shop, Forbidden palace, a Chinese junk for a new type of boat, or something along those lines. Ooh, Mulberry tree groves feeding silk worms and return money like a grove!

    If they do a fortune cookie factory, I’ll scream. First of all, fortune cookies were invented in San Francisco, where ngmoco’s offices are, so I would hope they don’t do anything with fortune cookies as that would beso anachronistic, it would make the chocolate shoppe appear more time appropriate by comparison.


  2. skwidspawn
    Feb 01, 2011 @ 04:13:39

    Speaking of Diamond Groves, I recently got back into WeRule and I remember that at one point you could purchase diamond groves with coin. This appears to be no longer the case, correct? Do they occasionally allow diamond groves to be purchased with coin or was this a permanent change?

    -Skwidspawn (lvl39)


    • Totalthinker
      Feb 02, 2011 @ 02:44:20

      No, they bring them back for 100000c occasionally. But unless you’re a high level player with coins to burn, rubies will return your investment far more quickly.


  3. hurlyburly
    Feb 02, 2011 @ 17:04:45

    You mention wanting a brothel. I placed a cottage on my Main Street with a red banner outside to represent a Whore’s House. I imaging drunken revelers stumbling in from the Tavern nextdoor. Plus, taxes are paid every 15 minutes, so I know she’s busy!

    We should create a code for various building combinations: a cottage next to a University represents a school psychiatrist. A throne next to a University means its name is King’s College (or Queen’s College). A pharmacy adjacent to a University means its a Pharmacological School. Be creative!


    • Totalthinker
      Feb 04, 2011 @ 06:40:40

      Please submit an article with your suggestions to my email. Make sure to include “you wanted this for the blog” in the subject field. It doesn’t matter if you don’t think you can write, send me a list if that’s all you want to do. I will post it as a guest blog (I may edit and send it back first).

      Don’t forget to include your real name.

      Dear posters, this is not an open submission invitation.


  4. Rathy1
    Feb 04, 2011 @ 06:05:39

    Still a bit of a lowbie here (lvl 19), but you might want to consider adding orange cottages to the list. Its the only one that has a 15 min return instead of 4 hours. In an expansion area, you can fit 121 of them without stacking.

    Great cheap way to earn coins and exp early on, provided you’re quite active. I did the math and just using 1 expansion area for orange cottages, you can make 1936 coins and 968 exp per hour in addition to everything in your other areas. If you stacked them and hit the limit of 192 I think it is, you would get you over 3k coins and over 1500 exp per hour.

    At 100 coins a pop, you make your money back fast plus all the exp you get.

    I’ve been running this for a while now and it works quite well. Collect, go visit your friends for a bit, come back and collect again. The only downfall is the missed coins and exp when you are away from the game for awhile.


    • Totalthinker
      Feb 04, 2011 @ 06:30:00

      Thank you. They do stack well. I had overlooked them because I don’t like to play more than three times a day anymore (it takes about forty five minutes to clear everything and that eats time). But I will revise posts.


  5. Rathy1
    Feb 05, 2011 @ 17:18:44

    After increasing the size of my realm, I’m starting to see why you didn’t add it to the list. Great idea when you’re low and not spending much mojo but now I have around 300 in that 1 realm (guess they didn’t cap those) and was going to fill it completely, but then I came to my senses. It’s getting to be a daunting task collecting those every 15 mins.

    The income is awesome and it’s improving my tapping accuracy, but it just seems like too much effort… I’ll keep it going til I can unlock ruby groves at 23 and then just stop screwing around with the cottages.

    Though, it seems they made the limit a per item thing since I was able to place as many of those cottages as I did. Otherwise, they removed the limits altogether.


    • Totalthinker
      Feb 07, 2011 @ 21:35:31

      Actually, I did take your suggestion and add them. Check the pages section under “idle income.”


  6. Superknight98
    Feb 06, 2011 @ 19:53:13

    I really don’t understand, how can ruby groves be so good? Sorry if I sound like a idiot.


    • Totalthinker
      Feb 07, 2011 @ 21:32:55

      A lot of players think this, but when you look at the top of the leader board, they all invest in rubies.

      They’re the most cost-effective investment in terms of regular, consistent return, especially if you don’t want to blow mojo on diamond groves.


  7. Rathy1
    Feb 07, 2011 @ 02:07:59

    They really aren’t that good… But at lvl 23 they’re about as good as I can get without spending a ton of mojo on fountains. I could just try to hold out til 27 and get the diamond groves instead but it will take much longer to get to 27 without the rubys to help… Besides, who says I can’t have both? More income is better than no income.


  8. Skwidspawn
    Feb 07, 2011 @ 03:54:09

    Ruby groves and Poseidon’s founts (as well as the rest of the idle-profit generators)are really only good for two things:

    1) Money Sinks
    2) XP generators

    Rubies are great because they’re a cheap investment at only 10,000c. They give 85XP every 6 hours, so grabbing them twice per day is relatively easy. At 170 XP and 200g per day they’re a pretty good return. You can also build an enormous number of these. My daily returns on rubies are much higher than on my crops simply because I have so many of the darn things.

    I just hit lvl 40 and have 288 ruby groves (no stacking needed) which net me 24,480 XP every 6 hours as well as 28,800g. It’s not as good as farming Venus Fly Traps for 6 hours, but there aren’t many of us who could do that as consistently.

    When you have the best 35 shops your money can buy and consistent buyers there isn’t any reason to invest in more shops when rubies/diamonds/founts are available.


    • Totalthinker
      Feb 07, 2011 @ 21:30:11

      If you’re only trying to move up the leader board, you’re right. Buy 35 of the best shop available at your level and change them out as soon as you can when a better one becomes available.

      But some players really do care more about the aesthetics of their kingdoms than leveling up, or are thinking along both lines.

      It would be interesting to see a realm designed exclusively around black dragons or Olympus mounts, however. That would fall into the repetition category of the design contest.


  9. Rathy1
    Feb 07, 2011 @ 04:23:25

    I agree with you there. Though it’s a bit more than a money sink… It’s more of an investment since you’ll be earning that money back.

    At lower levels, money seems to be slipping away too fast while exp isn’t a problem yet. I look for low cost and high yield or some balance between the two. But yeah, if you’re high level and oozing money, then it really doesn’t matter unless you’re going for ranking.

    But for someone my level (almost 22) there is so much to save for with too little income coming in. That’s why I invested in the cottages… As an active player you can get 16 coin and 8 xp per hour per cottage which is almost as good as the ruby groves. But, with only a 100 coin investment, you turn a profit fairly quick.

    Ruby groves will take at least 600 hours to start turning a profit whereas the orange cottages can pay themselves off in under 7 hours. And unless you’re spending mojo, diamonds will take over 4000 hours to pay themselves off which is around 24 weeks.

    Rubys are more consistent than the cottages though since you only need to collect them every 6 hours instead of every 15 mins.

    Just my personal thought process here as I’m still working the mid game and literally can’t afford to think end game yet.


    • Totalthinker
      Feb 07, 2011 @ 21:26:01

      As you’re learning, you’re strategies have to change as you level up. It’s much harder to earn coins and experience before L30 than after and even easter after L40, but once you reach L23 and can start adding ruby groves, the coins and experience start piling up.


      • Rathy1
        Feb 08, 2011 @ 05:58:52

        Ya, I’m seeing that as I go which is why lvl 23 is where I need to switch over to the rubies. More consistent coins and more exp than the cottages which will help with the exp to level getting higher and higher. Sadly, saving up for the same number of rubies as cottages would take me forever unless I buy massive quantities of mojo. I’m curious to see how the higher level players did it if they didn’t buy most of it with mojo.

        I guess patience really is a virtue.

      • skwidspawn
        Feb 08, 2011 @ 06:22:12

        Well, as Totalthinker said above, the best way to power up is to build 35 pf the best buildings and then burn your gold on groves until you can build even better buildings. Once you get 100 groves they practically build themselves.

  10. janet114
    Feb 09, 2011 @ 01:50:15

    Re how you get enough rubies…. Well, I simply didn’t buy ANYTHING. All income went to ruby groves. As soon as I harvested rubies, I spent all available money on new ruby groves. That way they all came ‘ripe’ at the same time. I did this for a couple weeks or more. It was wierd not having any free money, but after filling up one realm, I started on the next and they got purchased faster and faster. When I filled up 4 realms, THEN I started using my coins for other purchases and funny thing, I went from level 30 to level 45 at a rate of almost a level every day or two (well, it seemed that fast).

    I had coins when needed. When nothing new/interesting was available, I simply harvested 2-3 times/day and had patience. Then when the higher levels were available, I got ‘magically’ raised to level 50 and had 6 million coins to buy black dragons, etc. If my memory is correct, all my black dragons, olympuses and chateaus were purchased with coins. I did buy mojo and got my phoenix nests and red dragons to help give me an initial boost, but that was it. I used my ‘level up’ mojo simply to accelerate construction from then on (because I knew I would lose them by accident if I didn’t use them quickly).

    So the ruby groves are definitely worth while. It really made those later levels go quickly even though I was only buying one or two at a time when I started.

    Good luck


    • Totalthinker
      Feb 11, 2011 @ 03:36:31

      Janet’s right. Just invest every spare coin on rubies. You’d be surprised how quickly they start paying off. I did an entire chart projecting income in the groves blog several months ago.


  11. TBrandonE
    Mar 06, 2011 @ 19:22:10

    I noticed you mentioned patrons ordering low returns though you have much higher payouts available in other realms. I tend to be lazy as I figure lots of people do when surfing realms. If they made it so I could go realm to realm without having to return to the main realm each selection, I bet we would have a lot more visitors to our surrounding farms. It takes 8 loading sessions to visit someones entire kingdom. This could shrink it to 5, making it less irritating. Especially when a player has hundreds of groves slowing down your wait time


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